>> charlie: welcome to our program. we begin this evening with rory stewart. he's a member of parliament in great britain and he came to talk aut the london riots as well as his standing interest in afghanista >> we're not looking very seriously at ourself. society prides itself and generally sees itsel as a polite, well organized society, one that never had a revolution. this eruption after 25 years of apparent calm is really making us seem a little bit insecure. >> charlie: we conclude with jeff bridges, not only a movie

star now he has a new album, it is called jeff bridges. >> when i invited him to come on board saying are you interested in producing an album, i feel now would be a good time. he said sure so he came up to my house, we went through 60 to 70 tunes i was considering. after he heard them he said i don't really want to make a sequel to crazy heart, i'm really digging your music and i want your album to be eclectic. >> charlie: rory stewartand jeff bridges when we continue. every story needa hero we can all root for. who beats the odds d comes ouon top. but this isn't just a hollood storyline. it's happening every day, all across america.

every time a storefront opens. or the midnight oil is burned. or when soone chases a drea not just a dollar. theyre small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: rory stewart is here, he's a writer d a member of the british parliament. in 2002he walked across afghanistan and wrote bit in a

book called the places in between. after the invaon of iraq he served as a deputy coation in the southern region. he found a turquoise in understanding the cultural heritage. in a magazine he said it's someone who he longs to be. more than an ordinary achiever he wants to be connected to the epic. his latest book is called can intervention work. it exams the impact of foreign interventions from kosovo to afghanistan. i'm please to do have rory at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you veryuch. >> charlie you're off this evening go back to your district. >> that's right. >> charlie: prime minister is coming tomorrow. >> on a visit. >> charlie: what's going on in london. how do you explain these riots. >> i think it's very difficult to understand and most of the explanations should be provided don't really satisfy me because nobody predicted it. i have amanning who is a black h

member of parliament and from his point of view it came out of no where. he felt his community was a great deal the last 20 years, that race relations were much better. he would have said if you asked him a month ago something like this would happen, he would say definitely not. it's something from the most. so it's surprising. i think we need to take some time to understand this before we start rushing around coming up with some reasons. >> charlie: how do you police has handled it? >> it's very difficult to say. obviously they did not have enough officers on the ground when it began. we ended up with serious loofting taking place means you don't have enough police officers on the ground. another thing that's surprising is a lot of things happening through twitter and othe forms of social media. in a sense we were arab sung in london. >> charlie: how did social media affect these circumstances. >> you could organize people and gather them so much more quickly than the police would prefer to expect and keep up with.

once the word went out, 20-30,000 people almost instantly can be told to converge. >> charlie: your prime minister david cameron from the premier party called it a culture of selfishness and greed, a slow motion moral collapse. >> well, i think there were people who see gangsters is also clearly problems with society. whatever t course is, whether this is purely criminal, whether this is gangster-related, we have to address a lot of those communities feel excluded. their employment is not good. their education has been ver very poor. th feel left behind, they feel excluded. what are the course, whether it was deep seated social economic courses or whether it was some opportunistic criminals. we have to dress this seriously, we have to prioritize this. >> charlie: he action plan ought to be put those who are

guilty in jail and try tm an see what they are guilty or not guilty of what they're accused of and at the same time take a longer range view of what social inequality thereight be in order to address those kinds of circumstances which may give birth to these kinds of grievances. >> absolutely, charlie. there needs to be a firm emergency response to stop this kind of social disorder spreading, obviously. but in the longer term we need to work out what is going on underneath this to allow this to happen. >> charlie: how do you feel about mr. bratton being there as a consultant. >> i'm actually a fan of mr. bratton and i think it would be nice to bring him in and i think we should listen to him. >> charlie: so where is it now do you think? what is the moment we're at? >> we ink we're in a moment in britain where we're looking very seriously at ourlves. we're a society which is, you know, prides itself on generally sees itself as a polite,

well-ordered society not a very revolutionary society. as a matter of fact it's one society that's never had a revolution. sea this sudden eruption after 25 years of apparent calmness is has really i think made u feel a little bit insecure. >> charlie: what did you feel about being at the how is of common with the latest system response. >> wt i've learned is the kinds of things i used to talk about when i was a professor in afghanistan which had detailed policy questions, what's happening in this village, what's happened to the drug program, what's happened to the police, are almost enrely irrelevant when you get int national politics. >> charlie: that's interesting. irrelevant because. >> because national politics, the number one question is have the troops died in vain. it's a question about guilt, emotion and a question about moral obligation. to some extent it's almost irrelevant where the project is working or not. in national politics it feels as

though to take the very dangerous, failure is not an option. >> charlie: if you has been tony blair with respect to iraq, would you have been able to look at the mother and father of a soldier who died in iraq and say your son or daughter died in vain. >> i think it's unbelievably difficult charlie. i think the invasion is wrong, we got ourselves into a humiliating mess. all that was associated were a mistake. >> charlie: in both cases. >> in both cases. in afghanistan taking the invasion in iraq. but haveo sit there facing british soldiers. i was about a month ago talking to officers the guy in the front row was missing both his legs and try to explain slowl why think we should be withdrawing troops from afghanistan. it's very difficult to do. i didn't think there was an answer to that. one of the problems with modern democratic politics is it's very

difficult for politicians to disagree with the general or confront the soldier or extract yourself once you get stk on the ground. >> charlie: when you say to someone that someone died in vain they died probably with courage and a sense of mission even though the mission might have been wrong so it's hard to say to someone, your death was in vain. >> i agree with you. nobody dies in vain. i was briefly in the infantry myself. >> charlie: very great and well-known infantry. >> the honor and rendation of a soldier should be bound up with that personal courage, the relationship with theient, the relationship with their country. their sacrifice should not be judged on e basis of whether or not -- >> charlie: some politicians in london or washington made a decision about ... >> and furthermore you're not honoring soldiers by finding more corpses. you're notonoring their

sacrifices by remaining stucin a situation. >> charlie: by those that follow. >> yes. >> charlie: i mean who famously said who wants to be the last man to die. >> right. >> charlie: in a battle that was not winnable. >> exactly. so i think for me, the shift of being a politician is understanding suddenly that those are big. now when i stand up, i'm no longer talking about numbers of police recruited or statistics of what's happened in afghanistan, i'm trying to make comments about that. have the soldiers died in vain expiks plaininwhy i don't believe they died in vain but nevertheless we should be withdrawing troops. or addressg fears. a lot of this in london politics is about fear. people very quickly say this is an existential threat to global security if we lose in afghanistan, pakistan will fall, american credibility will be eliminated around the world. >> charlie: domino theory in evaluate number. >> exactly. sometimes you have to say it's

not that bad. there are 14 other countries around the world. yes, we have an obligation but they have an obligation to our people too. to try to cape putting things in context. >> charlie: if you from your experience in afghanistan had walked into the oval office when president obama was elected, what would you have said to him. >> what i tried to say to him was do not increase the troops. that's the situation in afghanistan and this is the troops in 2005-2006. e problem was not there were insufficient number of troops. there was not a military solution. we should not have believed the generals, he said. give us more troops, give us more resources and we can crack this one. >> charlie: the argument throw the generals were making i believe we're not going to wipe out the taliban it was we want to strengthen the kabul

government so that the taliban will come to the table knowing they can't win on the battle field and negotiate. was that an impossible mission to achieve? >> well the question i would ask the general, in fact i asked gen mcchrystal how are you going to sort out the afghan government. you've got a strategy that says there's no military solution, it's only going to work if the afghan government effective. what possible reason do you have to believe that the afghan government is going to improve. >> charlie: your assumption based on your experience was it would never improve to the level of being able to handle it on its own. >> and the united states does not have the leverage, the knowledge, the power, the legit must see to st out the afghan gornment. afghans can in the long run with the right kind of leadership. but it's not something which a saw -- civili surge or a lot of money. >> charlie: you did not buy into the idea of a

counterinsurgency wch petraeu was the father of in some circumstances with ir and afghanistan. you never bought into the idea. >> one of the reasons was my father was in a british me alan. >> charlie: a british diplomat and intelligence official. >> when he came to see me, he's now 89 years old. he came to see me in kabul and he was seeing all this stuff and everybody was saying it's like hearts and mines and the working population. he said straight out this is absolute nonsense. this is nothing like these guys don't have a chance. >> charlie: guys that don't have a chance are? >> in his case he was talking about the u.s. and british military. >> charlie: the military. >> yes. >> charlie: coming from outside trying to change the circumstances on the ground. >> not going to be able to replicate afghan. and the main reason he said, and i thought it was that in me alan the british were the government. they were not dealing indirectly

with somebody else's government, it was their country. there was a colonial situation. so all worked together. they controlled the borders. they had the consensus of the population. they had most of the ethnic groups on their side. malayan. >> charlie: probably if there had been an effective government in kabul at any time the taliban ner would have come to power the first me. >> exactly. so then you have exactly that. if there's an effective government in place you dot need to do it if there is an effective government in place you're probably not going -- >> charlie: what did your friend and my friend richard holbrook believe. >> i don't know. i was a real fan of his and he called me, i remember. >> charlie: in the middle of the night. >> yes. to say rory, if you think this surge is the wrong thing i want you to go out and say it and be clear because if you don't come out now i don't want to hear you criticize it bin. i took from that a sense that

maybe he agreed with me. but he was a very intelligent man and it's quite possible that what he had taken from vietnam was that he loved debate. he wanted someone out there. >> charlie: specifically he wanted you to convince the secretary of state. >> right, exactly. that's what he asked me to do. >> charlie: he asked you to sit next to him at dinner. >> that's right i yes. >> charlie: which is pure holbrookian. >> yes. >> charlie: which she was fully aware of all the arguments. >> he di thatrilliantly. he had a real sense of intellectual courage. he was not afraid to stage proper discussion to try to get different voices. >> charlie: books written about them, there will be one, but he believes that the military had too much influence in the end in comparison with the role of de employment e which he was part of. >> absolutely. and this is something which i'm

saying is increasing in the united states. now the new direction of the cia is of crse the general. >> charlie: petraeus. >> ambassador in kabul with the prevus general, the previous ambassador. >> charlie: it's left and the new ambassador who was diplomate. it's a curious fate when these generals end up in these positions. because it's wonderful, it has many strengths but its problem is that its incurably optimistic. >> charlie: so again the president would call you and say because of your experience i now ask you begin, not in 2008, but in 2011 right before i go on vacation, i'll think about this on vacation, what should we do now. your answer would be get your troops out as soon as possible, mr. president. >> i would say you're on absolutely the right track. your decision to draw down is correct. you need to stick to it. don't be diverted by critics saying you're abandoning the country, youe going to have

to ignore the generals. i'll say you're doing this too soon we need a couple years to sort this out. you have to remember the generals have said that every year since 2005. you have to recognize after ten years there's a limit to what you can do. so we're going to draw down, we're going to try -- >> charlie: the generals told the president they were making progress. do you believe they were misleading the president? >> i think they were misleading themselves. >> charlie: on themselves. so they bought the idea and then they told the proceed. >> it's a dna of generals to feel ifthe situation isn't working all they need is more resources and new strategy, more troops and they're going to crack this thing. >> charlie: not all generals cause the president had some people advising him and they went through an exhaustive review and there were mixed opinions as there were mixed opinions going after osama bin laden. >> in the end the guys said, and they won and they're always going to win. in a sense he probably exhausted

reviews. mcchrystal already told the president he wanted more troops. that seven or eight week period while the president was thinking about it i feel is the politician was almost a waste of time. it w almost impossible for him to come out again. >> charlie: it was involved in was the counterterrorism coin. do you believe that counterterrorism which biden the vice president evidently believed in would be work as well in which you simply go after al-qaeda. >> right. my sense is that it's extremely unlikely that the taliban could take afghanistan, take kabul begin. i think it's not kely al-qaeda. i don't think they could separate themselves from the afghan soil. i feel that it's possible for the united states to contain and manage the situation, say 10, 20,000 troops on the ground.

and that the expenditure of $125 billion a year was fundamental misunderstanding of afghanistan and america. >> charlie: fundamental misunderstanding of afghanistan and of history is what. >> fundamental misunderstanding is the relationship is the aptitudes of afghans were not going to support that kind of operation. they were not committed to the kinds 06 things -- of things that the u.s. military was. >> charlie: i'll ask you this question which is the title of your book, can intervention work. >> absolutely. where it did work very well was in bosnia and a lot of this book is about reflecting on that. >> charlie: very different circumstances. >> very different circumstances but still pretty amazing. >> charlie: no troops on the ground. >> 195 when holbrook signs up to date. the situation looks like a total disaster and any old cynic like

me looking at it in 1995 would say we need to sort this country, there are 420,000 people under arms in that country, one and-a-half million refugees have left, one million people displaced every mosque and catholic church in the bosnian -- >> charlie: you would have said to holbrook and the president don't come here. >> if i said that i would have beenotally wrong because in fact what happened between 1995 and 2003 was nothing short of a miracle. 415,000 people demobilize so you end up with an army of just a few thousand. nearly 200,000 properties returned a million refugees come back in, crime right -- >> charlie: why did they work mill temporarily -- why did it work militarily. >> it worked i think because the bosnians turned out driving this. the a lot of the problems presented tothe president were

centuries ofthnic hatred were not. they were the actions of a few men from the top down. curiously when we started to return refugees into those areas, it wasn't the level of popular resistan. >> charlie: it was like they were living side by side. >> it turned out a lot of these militia groups were financed by the governments. when the money went away they collapsed. the smart thing the community did was very prudent. they didn't try to force through too much chang it waited until the militia began to collapse and dealt with the war criminals, negotiated with them and finally got them in the hague. so bosnia is the thing we should be concentrating on and that's what shouldive us hope as we move forward in syria and elsewhere. >> charlie: that's what we should have done in rwanda. >> that's what we should have done in rwanda and we should forget the models in afghanistan. >> charlie: should we intervene in syria. >> i believe at the moment --

>> charlie: there is an indigit nuts revolt. >> we should be saw scious about syria. >> charlie: should we have intervened in libya. >> yes but the president's mallity there is smart because it's not black or white. it doesn't say either w do nothing or we put 100,000 troops on the ground. what he's saying no troops on the ground, we're going to protect the population. people say, i mean the reason i like the libyan thing is it's a moderate policy. not an extreme policy. and people get impatient, they say qaddafi is still there, you failed. >> charlie: so but would military, would th use of military force in syria that had nothing to do with putting boots on the ground be effective in support of those who are opposing the government. would that be a wise policy, no troops on the groundut military air support for the rebels. >> i think at the moment that would be unwise. >> charlie: because. >> because we don't know what we're doin the key thing is we've got to look at the next 20 years. the problem for politicians is

everybody's pushing for decision now. and you feel the pressure for that with horrible things happening with people being killed. but generally as history suggests you got to think about the next generation in the middle east and north africa. not to discredit yourself or alienate the united nations. you have to build coalitions ntly. if you can't get them together and get the security council on your side unfortunately you shouldn't because if you're not acting unilaterally we're back to the problems of iraq. >> charlie: tell me how the turquoise foundation is doing. >> thank you, charlie. well, touching wood, it's been great. we've now got a clinic going which it should be seeing 12,000 people this year in the central kabul. got a rong elementary school half girls half boys we're training traditional cross speakers, women and men. we're stored 65 buildings in the historic city of kabul and we've got 200 afghan staff i believe are committed to the

project as proud as the restoration and we've got some vital stuff going on now. >> charlie: how do you see the future with the debt issues and the euro zone not being able to use their own currency to pay their bil? >> europe i think is now such a fundamental crossrds. what we leard is you cannot have a single currency whout having a finance ministry and a single fiscal structure. united states keeps its huge group of states together because in the end we've got a treasury secretary you can actually coordinate things. the fiscal policy can undermine the single currency. that's going to have to happen. you'll have a euro zone, excluding countries like britten

but including countries like france and germany. which is going to come closer and closer together politically. and that will mean that countries like britain that have always been afraid that there's economic union is really a political union under another name will find themselves drifting apart. >> charlie: how is the relationship between cleg and cram run working now. >> think much better. it's two different parties. these are guys that went head to head right with the leadership campaign, packing each other -- >> charlie: elections party did very badly. >> it didn't do well at all. >> charlie: what does that mean to the coalition. >> that means a come things. it means that cleg is going to be hoping over the next three years the policies of this government is vindicated, he'll separate himself from a that

party and say the democrats can be a party government. the conservatism are hoping on the other hand they will be able to win a majority. >> charlie: it's interesting that this has seemed to gained some pense of presence, do you agree. >> i absolutely agree. the politics is thicker. the last time the united states just successfully commanded the separation to kill bin laden and everybody says he's gained his presence, he is now the president. >> charlie: he's now the commander in chief. >> he can't lose the next election and a few months later everybody's attacking him. i think the terrle thing about modern politics it's very easy to lurch in an instant from a seemingly incredible -- >> charlie: with your own family back ground and your education and your experience in both military and intelligenc was it in evitable that you would enter politics because of the sense of something? >> i don't think it was inevitable but it's probably the most fulfilling thin that i've ever done. >> charlie: more than

writing, more than anything se. >> yes. i'm afraid so. i lovet. i go every weend up to my district which is the late district, a beautiful mountainous area in england. i'm separated from the problems in london. then i'm back in a week getting engaged inrojects meeting people like you, havg a chance to ink about libya and afghanistan. it's a real privilege. >> charlie: they talk about the grand grand ambition. >> it's a funny change. i feel that really the journey in my life is to work on smaller and smaller scale. i get satisfaction working more on local. you're right, i'm trying to set

myself up as a historical figure. i think when i was in iraq and acting as deputy governor of a province of too many people i felt like that but increasingly i feel very happy if i manage to get 1200 afford able houses buit in ten years. >> charlie: because you prefer the tangible. >> and in the end you can have a sense of title. but if you achieve absolutely nothing. >> charlie: does that mean that you find deeds more fulfilling than words? >> yes. i like getting things done and i think i've taken that from my dad. 89 year old man still getting things down. >> charlie: he's still alive. >> yes. >> charlie: this book can intervention work. pleasure to have you rory stewart. >> thank you very much. >> charlie: jeff bridges is here. he ione of the most versatile and accomplished actor that we v he's made more than 60 movies. he'll start another one this fall. his focus at the phone is on

music. he has just released his own album called appropriately enough jeff bridges. here is a sample. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> charlie: i am pleased to have jeff bridges back at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie, it's ways a joy. >> charlie: when the dude is in the room all is well. so music is in your blood. >> it's in my blood. >> charlie: you've been doing this a long time. >> yes, man. i'm bleeding. it's so wonderful. >> charlie: how is it all erupted no you did an album in 2000.

>> i'm thinking of crazy heart, the success of that really kicked it off. so i guess i have my director and my writer scott cooper to blame, paror this album. >> charlie: he was here actually to talk about the movie. >> oh yeah. such a wonderful talented guy. and my buddy t-bone burnett. just followed the line back past crazy heart, which really you have to do to really track the history of the album. go back 30 years ago to heaven's gate and that's where i met t-bone. well christoffson, the star of that film brate hills buddies along to play parts. t-bone likes to call himself my assistant but he's really my maid. he has an apron on and a hat.

rony hawkins, you know him. and when we weren't making the movie shooting scenes and stuff, we were jamming. we just played and that's where t-bone first heard my music and we've been tight friends ever since. >> charlie: when y made crazy heart, did steven get involved in that? >> yeah. when i first read the script for crazy heart, i took a pass on it because there was no music attached. it was just this wonderful story but you know that didn't have great music to it, it wouldn't anything. so i ran into t-bone somewhere and he said what do youhink of this crazy heart script and i sa, why , you interested in doing it. he said i'll do it if you do it and i said let's go. be started to rally the troops. bruton which is t-bone's oldest

friends, they go back to fort worth. listening to music in steven's, his dad's record store and that kindf thing. >> charlie: how did they shape the character in terms of his musicality in terms of what he did. >> now bone, what he did -- >> charlie: that's a great name, bone. >> yes, iend to go there. but bone said i'm going to make a play list for the music that bad blake listened to growing up in fort worth because tt's where stevennd irew up. so we know what we're talking about. so there were some names on there that weren't a surprise, you know, hank williams, and meryl haggard. and then there were the beatles,

leonard cohen. you remember, it's killing me i can't remember but it will come back. all of this eclectic kind of music, i said if beef heart could be on the list. and he said sure, absolutely everybody. so that's the kind of pool we were fishing in when we were looking for songs all kinds of genres that wasn't so narrow-minded. i think that's one of bone's specialties is he doesn't get locked into one job. >> charlie: the combination of them with you take your own musicality up a notch. >> yes. >> charlie: you couldn't have done this without having done that as a stepping stone to get even more deep. >> i think so. t-bone's doing a bunch of stuff at the time when he woul engage in the movie so he assigned

steven to be on the set every day. and steven was just, you know, instrumental in the success of that movie applying the songs that's his. so he was my guitar teacher of course, helped me that way. but just as far as making sure that we were all keeping it real how it really is. >> charlie: he was living with lung cancer. >> well yes, he died. the movie's dedicated to him. he died shortly after the film was completed. and throughout, yes. he had things like the opening scene where he gets out and he pours that bottle full of piss out. that was bruton's idea. this is what i would do. >> charlie: look at this. this is from you now. the guitar and you got bad all over the place including the buckle. >> that's right. >> charlie: so in a sense, how you personified the album

flows right out of it, even the y you sort of see yourself. >> a little bit. but one of the things when i invited t-bone to come on forward, saying are you interested in producing an album i feel like now would be a good time. he said sure. so he came up to my house, there were 50-60 tunes i was considering. he said i don't want to make a sequel to crazy heart, i'm really digging your music and i want the album to have e eclectic. i have songs from my poastled i was friend going back 60 years, john goodwin. he's written a lot of songs on there. >> charlie: what a little bit of love can do. >> that's a bruton tune. >> charlie: falling short. >> that's one of mine. >> charlie: that's one of yours. >> that's an old tune of mine. >> charlie: everything but love. >> yes. >> charlie: then tumbling vine, that's another tune of

yours. nothing yet. >> that's a bruton tune. >> charlie: blue car. >> that's greg brown, we were just talking about him. >> charlie: right, right. maybe i missed the point. >> that's a jnny goodwin. >> charlie: slow boat. >> that's mine. >> charlie: the river is wide deeper than deep on one side they're crying and on the side they sleep. >> that's bull ramsey. >> charlie: bruceed by t-bone burnett. so when you set out to do this, obviously people are going to say he's an aor. not a musician. and you say i've been a musician longer in an i've been an actor. >> wouldn't go that far. >> charlie: because they put you out front quickly. >> my dad, both my parents were so gung-ho in business and acting, they want me to maria sue that. >> charlie: they loved the

craft. >> i kind of dug it but like most kids you don't want to do what your parents want you to do. u want to do your own dream. i resisted it for a long time. my father, i'm glad i listened to him. he said what's so great about acting is you can include all of your interests and apply that to your actg. and that's what happened. >> charlie: can you include all of your interest in your music. >> oh yeah. well you know, to me there's no difference, really. i approach them in the same way. and there's more similarities and differences really. in movies, you go home you study your lines a that kind of thing. in music. and you practice your stuff. but then u com tobacco -- together with the musicians and in the movies with the other actors. >> charlie: you had tlu in true grit andyou were feeling a little bit down. >> i was doing saturday night live, i missed one day.

oh my god, it was a nightmare. >> charlie: you were here for crazy heart. when you approached true grit, we'll come back to the music, or bad blake. rooster or bad blake. how much of it is you learng the line and how much of you getting a fix on this can character. >> i don't know if they're different things really. i mean that' the first place you work is the words, you know. what you say about yourself that other people are saying, the other characters are saying about you. then you see how it applies to what you know about yourself, things that kind of link up that are similar. you maybe magnify those aspects of yourself, kick the other ones to the curb. and it's observation, looking around. i get like a sponge, i see everything through a filter of that part and how it might use

that. >> charlie: so you take the lines and you take the other characters and in a sense do you, is there a lot of for you all this sort of aing that highly trained classical actors and others go through in terms of psyching out a part and where is this guy where do they come from or do you see that simply the text. >> that's interesting. i don't know, you know. i don't know how other guys approach it. my dad taught me the basics. >> charlie: what's the best thing he taught you? >> the best thing he thought me, it wasn't something he said but just observing him, how he worked. and he brought such joy to his work. he just loved it so much. and the joy is kind of contagious, u know. i work with him as an adult twice in tucker and in blown

away. whenever he showed up on the set, you know, he was up, he was hot. he was just feeling so good and people would realize this is fun what we're doing. i for got. we'r pretending like we're kids. thin when you relax that's when the good stuff kind of comes out. it doesn't have to be all like joking, it's very serious work >> charlie: str it away. >> yes. >> charlie: is it different in terms of music being a creative expression and film being a creative expression. >> i find more similarities too. i've been going on the road and performing, i just got off performing at, in the stage at stirgis with motorcycles.

>> charlie: they must have loved you. >> it's like doing a scene. you work with the audience like you're a character. it's an improv. >> charlie: how long have the guys in the band been with you. >> i would say wt, maybe four or five months. all santa barbara guy and terry rodriguez is a grade addition. and my daughter is singing with other. that's great having her on board. >> charlie: have you always wanted to do the music and crazy heart gave you the opportunity in toampletz album, something you thought had real possibility. >> i put out an album two years ago with michael mcdonald produced it along with chris. we had a great time doing that. music is like you said, it's just been a part of my life and every once in the while the baker boys got to show up in the

movies. i did a movie kerry gillian not too long ago. >> charlie: this is about love, the firscut. ♪ ♪ >> charlie: here's the nt thing want you to see. this is t-bone talking about you. >> talking about an artist, he's a master artist.

there are a particular group of songs that are art songs. we're doing it for an old time art label. blue note was one of those hyper ethical labels so it's a good place for it, the way he acts and participate in the film is very much like a musician. the most readily directed person. he doesn't come back at you if you say something, he absorbs it and takes it in. the way he plays with her actors is much like the way musicians play together. a give or take th generosity, the freedom. i respect his process deeply. i don't know what it is. i have no idea how to describe or what he's doing, how he's going about this. but the end result is clearly great. >> charlie: there he i so let me jt talk about the songs here. tumbling vine. where does it come from? what part of you do you bring. >> i think it's a buddhist bent.

>> charlie: i saw that. >> i'm buddhistly bent. >> charlie: you are bent. flirting with but more bt. >> it's like music when you have sympathetic strings that kind of resonate. the dharma stuff. >> charlie: what is it about buddhism you like. >> so much. i guess basically that self, the duality, the whole duality thing, seek the other as the self. charlie: were you searching for somethingr did it just happen that you found this. >> i found myself, ever since i can remember kind of interesting in the spiritualual things, christian and all different kind of things. i was a big fan of cousin sockus i like his take on christianity a bit. >> charlie: you also life family life. you tell young act turs find

someone you love and get married. >> yes. that was something that coppola said, i ran into him an he was giving that class to some actors. he says this is the most important thing, getting married. because most movies or stories reply about love, they're either not getting enough too much or looki for it or something. >> charlie: yes but finding the right person. >> oh yeah. then you're also going out there and being successful for somethin you're creing a family. >> charlie: you always pay tribute to her contribution to you. >> to my wife. oh my god, yes, totally. i'm so excited that she's behind the music too. >> charlie: meaning what. >> well she digs it, you know. these thrilled and i can tell she's not fooling. >> charlie: where would you like this to go, the music? >> yes. as far as this album's

concerned -- >> charlie in other words can you see a life where you spend as much time on music as you do on -- >> i could, yes. that would be cool. i mean i'm hoping that this will kind of just like crazy heart sort of till the soil for this to happen. i'm hoping this will be more. >> charlie: all in the same vain is this. >> i don't know if it's in the same vain. we were talking wanting to do more stuff and just let it kind of grow where it grows. it's aonderful thin that happens when you're lucky when you're involved in project when you're starting to bring things to it. and then after a while. it starts to tell you with a it is. and you say what about this and they go no, no. and you start to serve it. that's kind of where you want to get. >> charlie: are you thinking songs all the time now? >> yeah, pretty much, yeah. >> charlie: falling short.

>> yeah. >> charlie: where does that come from. >> falling srt -- >> charlie: am i falling short or do i fly. while ith miss the mark do i hit the sky if i'm working do i answer why i'm alive bush whack a path leave the sign dodge the rats. falling short, hit the spot in a place where i'm shot from the womb of my mother. >> this is like from about 30 years ago. when i was going through these tunes with t-bone, he dug that song and it still holds water for me. you know, it's about the kind of, another song, about kind of missing the point. you know, where you're so concerd about this one little tiny target that you're aiming for that you're missing the whole beauty and perfectn. it's, you kw, around you, it's holding you. >> charlie: now has this

changed you at all in a sense, the music, finding this expression with large. >> >> i've been doing it since i was a teenager. >> charlie: doing jam sessions. >> jam sessions and doing the music. so it's kind of talking about being held, i've been held with that music. >> charlie: held. >> held in it. it feels like it's my mom or something. it feels good, you know. >> charlie: so the movie that you're doing this fall, what is that? >> r.i.p.d. >> charlie: what is that. >> ryan reynolds is in it and kevin bacon and another musician. >> charlie: in your highest dreams who would you like to play with. >> i got to py with bob dylan.

that was a high point for me. >> charlie: did you play music. >> he taught me to play. i was in my trailer and there was a little knock hey, do you want to pick. i mean, erything was sweating. but i got to act with him and it took abo half a day where we just jammed on acting and pretending together like we were kids, you know for a day working on this scenend trying it different ways and that was a thrill. >> charlie: i know more actors that sort of have a thing for him more than any other particular person i know. actors who love music love dylan more than anybody. do you find that to be true.

>> yes, i would think so. >> charlie: more dylan than the beatles for you or not. >> yeah, i would think so. i mean as far as acting. >> charlie: no, in terms of who is a poet that spoke to you. >> yes, probably so and the fact he's still doing it and still working it and he's got such a presence. >> charlie: here's a clip from what a little bit of love can do. here it is. ♪ i know you're feeling down and blue ♪

♪ there ain't nothing really wrong with you ♪

>> charlie: so after this, you've been to new york promoting the music. you go back home for a day or two and then you go back on tour. >> yes, it's three days for doing the marin and saroga, california and then seattle. >> charlie: this is a piece i'm not sure, may 2011 and it's a big thing written chris jones and he says the following. you say the following. live like you're already dead, man. have a good time, do your best, let it all come ripping right through you. that's you, isn't it. >> i think it'sou too. wouldn't you say just do it. >> charlie: don't let perfect be the enemy of god and don't pass up the opportunity, you know. >> that's right. >> charlie: and don't live in fear. >> no, man. >> charlie: we'll talk about that. we actually had a show once and we had a long conversation about

fear. you can't let fear paralyze you. >> yes. >> charlie: we talk board of director movies. the big lebowski is at the top. really in terms of crting the aura ofbridges, ev more so than the last picture show. >> i was at the big kick off at the blue ray last night or the night before. >> charlie: the big lebowski is now in blue ray. >> yes. the whole cast got together. bone's up there. it was a wild kick o. an they hadhese fests now. they've got festivals all around the world. >> charlie: if for whatever reason it's at the top. what's second? >> i would think, that popped in my head. >> charlie: crazy heart. >> yeah. >> charlie: i would too.

>> also the most recent stuffis kind of fresh but i really dig my -- oh man. >> charlie: it has an authentic stamp. everything there has an authentic stamp. >> i've been so fortunate to work with guys like peter to kick the thing off. last picture show, that just sits there by itself. >> charlie: have you ever turned something down that you wish that later became a part that you said man. >> no, no, not really. >> charlie: you wouldn't regret it anyway, would you >> what do you mean? >> charlie: you turn down crazy heart. >> yes, yes. >> charlie: not for me. and then bones came to you and said -- >> i tried hard really not to engage. i spent a lot of energy doing that. >> charlie: you tried hard not to engage. >> to find things wrong with it to say no because i know what it

costs to say yes, what i means. >> charlie: to be away from your family sometimes. >> be away from your family and not able to dohat's right around the corner but you're not aware now. >> chaie: i might missn opportunity. >> and i've got a lot o things i been like doing. playing music. >> charlie: aking pictures, ceramics. >> yes, a bunch of stuff. >> charlie: itom a little late, creativity, the need to express yourself. >> i think so, yes. >> charlie: you're doing well. it's always great to see you. >> thank you. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org